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Do Guns at Political Events Disturb You? Then Consider Skipping Arizona for Now
I am not yet certain whether I would advocate a travel boycott by others of the state of Arizona; I want to learn more about Arizona's gun laws and how they compare with those of other states. But I am shocked beyond measure by reports that earlier this week, nearly a dozen persons, including one with an assault rifle strapped about his shoulders and others with pistols in their hands or holsters, were openly congregating outside a hall at which President Obama was speaking to the Veterans of Foreign Wars.

For myself, without yet suggesting that others follow me in an open boycott, I will not personally travel in a state where civilians carry loaded weapons onto the sidewalks and as a means of political protest. I not only believe such practices are a threat to the future of our democracy, but I am firmly convinced that they would also endanger my own personal safety there. And therefore I will cancel any plans to vacation or otherwise visit in Arizona until I learn more. And I will begin thinking about whether tourists should safeguard themselves by avoiding stays in Arizona.

According to the Phoenix, Arizona, police, people with guns including assault rifles do not need permits in Arizona, but can simply carry such weapons with them, openly and brazenly, when they gather to protest a speaker at a public event. The police also acknowledge that about a dozen people carrying guns, including one with an AR-15 assault rifle, milled about outside the event at which President Obama spoke.

I would feel as I do regardless of the political identity of the speaker whom these thugs attempted to intimidate. The continued tolerance of extremists carrying guns is a frightening development which strikes at the heart of the political process and endangers the ability to carry out a reasoned debate. Is there any responsible citizen of the United States who believes that people should carry guns to a public debate or speech? If Ronald Reagan were delivering a political talk in Phoenix, Arizona, would they have felt it was proper for protestors with guns to mill about outside the hall from which he would leave?

I'd appreciate hearing your comments. The question is, should we all organize a travel boycott of Arizona until this tolerance of armed intimidation is ended, probably by an act of the Arizona legislature?
Tags: arizonasafety
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travel4sushi wrote:
Are they individuals "extremists" because they choose to exercise their rights? WOW this one is way off base. Stick to travel, not politics.
8/19/2009 11:36 AM EDT
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Charlemagne wrote:
Some of us in this great nation have lost our site of our history and common sense. Rights are not absolute,if they harm some one else. Courts have ruled repeatedly that no one has the right to yell "FIRE" in a crowded room. When we talk about individual rights, the rights of others are included. I agree with Mr.Frommer that free speech is not enhanced by armed intimidation. Why don't we think before we act?
8/19/2009 12:33 PM EDT
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Debtreks wrote:
I agree with Mr. Frommer. That is not representative of what I want my country to stand for. I am but one vote (2 with M. Frommer), but we who think similarly have the right to boycott. As the fine, Fox News lovin' folks in AZ have the right to their owns laws. But I'd join in.
8/19/2009 12:48 PM EDT
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Jaxx wrote:
How about provocateurs instead of extremists. They were not there to attend the rally and didn't bring guns to defend themselves or shoot any one. They were there to cause trouble.
That said the AZ police and the secret service did exactly what they should have .. nothing. The Wingnut media however did a great job of bowing it out of proportion

As far as the ban you would have to add another 9 to 21 other states to me consistent


here is the wiki on open carry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_carry
8/19/2009 1:54 PM EDT
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JackSalazar wrote:
Mr. Frommer,

Instead of addressing your fears, you should educate yourself on the facts!
This will prove how unfounded your fears to be. No weapons were pointed at anyone, and no arrest of these "gun wielding civilians" were made at these rallies. There was no itimidation here, unlike the New Black Panthers standing outside the polling place, whose charges were coincidentally dropped by Obama's Prosecuter.

Did you know that airplanes fly in the air? Yet one may have a fear of flying, so they should stay off planes too? Or, address those fears? Your argument is to stay off planes, to use an analogy.

Stay off the political, and don't leave the bubble that is New York City.

The realization that you are a fearful traveler, saddens me.
8/19/2009 2:18 PM EDT
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gvmelissa wrote:
Travel4Sushi - They are extremists because their behavior, openly wearing guns to a political event, is well outside the perceived political center of a society or common moral standards - part of the definition of Extremist.

JackSalazar - A gun has no purpose other than to harm or intimidate. A plane is used for mass transportation. It makes LOTS of sense to be afraid of guns. Fear of flying is generally an irrational, yet very real fear to some and really has no correlation to a fear of guns. Was that the best you could do?? If you want to compare the fear of guns to something, you might want to choose, oh I don't know, kidnappers, suicide bombers, serial murderers, or an "object designed, made, or adapted for the purposes of inflicting death or serious physical injury" (part of the definition of Deadly Weapons from wiki). Seems to me to be quite smart to fear these items - or at the very least to avoid being in an area where the such people or items are legally allowed.

Mr. Frommer - Thank you so much for posting this very enlightening bit of news. Yes, it is very scary. I too will consider a boycott of travel to Arizona.
8/19/2009 3:04 PM EDT
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When I was a kid we had guns everywhere and I believe it was our right. We used them for hunting and my dad was a gunsmith so they were a sport too. I believe in everyone being able to own guns.

However, someone bringing a gun to a demonstration is only doing it for one purpose - to intimidate others. Why else would they do it? I realize it's the law so they CAN do it but is there any logical reason why they should? Growing up we had a very strong need for a gun as do many people who live where we used to. Now I live in a place where I don't need one. I don't want to have to buy a gun to protect myself from the whackos who think they need to carry theirs to demonstrations.

Here's my thoughts. The first time someone fires one off in a crowd everyone else will pull theirs out and return fire. When this happens we have cause to make all private ownership of guns illegal. For those who think taking a gun to a demonstration is a good idea and want to keep that privilege maybe you should talk to the others and convince them to keep their guns at home unless there's really a need for them or ALL of you may lose that privilege.



8/19/2009 6:35 PM EDT
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JackSalazar wrote:
Oh Melissa,

Such a disingenuous argument, and so typical.

You state: "A gun has no purpose other than to harm or intimidate."

Has it ever occured to you that a gun also has the ability to "protect", if one chooses to use it that way. I am sure you would be grateful for a neighbor coming to your rescue while a knife-wielding rapist is having his way with you, or would you turn him away, or worse, criticize him for having, and, using a gun to save your life? Maybe inviting the rapist to sit down over a beer after he is done with you, would make you happier?

You state: "Fear of flying is generally an irrational, yet very real fear to some and really has no correlation to a fear of guns."

Your fear of guns is irrational as well. The correlation stands & you saying it doesn't, doesn't make it so. So many people are harmed, and killed, with kitchen knives. Do you have a fear of other people's kitchens? Plus, you can hide a very deadly knife much more easily than a handgun.

What you should fear, are criminals having any kind of weapon. And many serial killers don't use guns (although Spree Killers do), choking their victims with their hands, pantyhose or cords.

Tell me Melissa, will you be avoiding public places where men have hands?

You are just as fearful as Mr. Frommer, and I suggest you stay in bed tomorrow as the Great State of Arizona will not miss your visiting.

Let the rest of us 'Carpe Diem".

btw, I don't not own a gun, or have ever applied for ownership.
8/19/2009 6:50 PM EDT
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thenemo1 wrote:
Arthur, grew up these people were processed by secret service and not with-in a danger zone of the prisident.
As for your intimidation statement we are all under a looking glass with cameras all over do you realise the process in prisidential affairs!
And anyone that was acting like a threat to anyone would be removed as a matter of course.
8/20/2009 6:35 AM EDT
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Luvghosttours wrote:
Mr. Frommer would you as be concerned to know that many, many gun owners have licenses to carry CONCEALED weapons? Yes, no-see-ums!! Thousands upon thousands have them. That is their right, you know.

I will be traveling to Arizona, Texas and Colorado this Fall and I have NO problem whatsoever about their gun laws. I cannot wait to see Phoenix.

I do think that YOU should stick to TRAVEL and stay outta' politics. OK?
I come here all the time for TRAVEL information and I have booked tours and cruises, rented rooms and cars from links on the website many times.

If I want politics, I can find that elsewhere on the web and TV.
8/20/2009 12:44 PM EDT
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