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Comments, opinion and advice from the founder of Frommer's Travel Guides
Some personal history may explain why I'm sceptical of user-generated travel websites
Though I've written before about this topic, I have only recently remembered my own direct, personal experience with user-generated travel information.

Long before there was an Internet -- in fact, many years before there were even personal computers -- I attached a feature called "Readers' Selections" to every chapter of the printed guidebooks I was publishing. In "Readers' Selections," I would run verbatim excerpts from the letters I received from readers, recommending a particular hotel or restaurant that they had especially liked.

I was bursting with pride over the usefulness of these "Readers' Selections." In one of the editions of Europe on $5 a Day, I actually wrote that many of the "Readers' Selections" were better than my own recommendations. Why? Because, I explained, I have to find forty or fifty lodgings to recommend in each European city. A reader, by contrast, will remember just one particular lodging that stood out, and that establishment was therefore bound to be outstanding.

And then a funny thing happened. I began to suspect that many of the letters I was receiving were fakes -- recommendations that particular European hotels had persuaded a guest to write or that they themselves had written.

Another problem with the "Readers' Selections" was that people were using my user-generated selections to have fun with Europe on $5 a Day. One year I received an ecstatic letter from a reader about an expensive nightclub in Paris where you could stand at the bar nursing a single drink and thus see an entire stageshow at minimal cost. The nightclub itself was happy to have you, said the reader. I printed that letter in my Paris chapter, and immediately received anguished tales from readers of being physically ejected from that club the moment they attempted to see the show from the bar. I had been the victim of a practical joke by the author of that advice.

But mainly because "Readers' Selections" were being manipulated -- heavily manipulated -- by the very hotels and restaurants to which they referred, I was eventually forced to eliminate the section from my books. And for the past twenty years or so, Frommer's travel guides have contained no "Readers' Selections." Instead, they are each based on the expertise and judgment of one or more professional journalists, usually persons who actually live in the city or nation in question, and who write one revised edition after another, repeatedly visiting the establishments that are described in the book.

I prefer that kind of judgment to the advice of a person who has been to a particular destination exactly once in their entire lives, and doesn't have a clue as to what the general level of hotels or restaurants there should be.

There is accumulating evidence that many of the user-generated websites -- and there are new ones cropping up every month -- are being manipulated or, in some cases, operated with less than professional standards. I've written before about the public relations agencies that now advise their clients to provide the user-generated sites with enthusiastic recommendations about themselves. I've later written about a Scottish tourist board that advises hotels in Scotland to do the same. More recently, a major cruiseline has been accused of bestowing free cruises and other perks on persons who contribute enthusiastic reviews about that cruiseline to the various user-generated cruise websites.

And most recently, the sharpest attack ever against the user-generated websites was launched by the giant airfare search engine, Kayak. In announcing his own, new, user-generated collection of hotel and restaurant reviews TravelPost.com (www.travelpost.com), the president of Kayak stated that his chief competitor seemed to "care more about their bottom lines than providing relevant content....So we built a website...[of] unbiased results that are not auctioned off to the highest bidder."

Clearly, things are getting nasty in the world of user-generated travel websites. But maybe the participants are simply learning the lessons that I did years ago in attempting to add "readers' selections" to the chapters of my travel guidebooks. The problems are enormous...and, in my view, insurmountable. Isn't it naïve to assume that commercial establishments will not themselves compose fake recommendations? Isn't it the height of innocence to expect that the user-generated sites printing those recommendations are able to distinguish the genuine from the fake?
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Something that Hostelworld does which seems to minimise this kind of thing is to send a link with an invitation to comment on the accomodation after you've stayed there. I could be wrong but from memory you can't give a place a rating unless you've actually booked and paid through their site.

Apart from that, I guess personal recommendations from friends and family will become more important as news of these kinds of rorts spreads.
3/26/2009 4:18 PM EDT
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sam74 wrote:
I've submitted reviews to places like tripadvisor in the past, but I've often found it difficult to find useful reviews even when they're not hotel-generated. My biggest issue are people who (perhaps because they don't travel extensively) have unrealistic expectations about the properties they stay at. of course hotel rooms in the heart of european cities are going to be smaller than they are in the US. This shouldn't be a surprise. Or the people who are shocked (shocked!) to arrive at a dive resort (that dedicates 90% of its website to its dive facilities) to discover that there's not that much to do besides, um, diving.

i found myself spending way too much time trying to figure out reviewers motivations and possibly unrealistic expectations that it's just not worth it anymore.
3/26/2009 4:34 PM EDT
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Hotel owners confirm your fears are well-founded.

I was recently in Nicaragua, where Trip Advisor reviews are considered extremely important in promoting hotels. I chose two hotels in large part based on Trip Advisor recommendations.

The second hotel we stayed at was a very friendly place near the beach in which you wind up spending a fair amount of time chatting with the retired California couple who own it. They confirmed the importance of Trip Advisor and also mentioned that a number of local hotel owners freely admit (when talking among themselves) that they use multiple computers to post multiple positive reviews to Trip Advisor (apparently, they do check IP addresses in an attempt to detect multiple postings). This was discussed at a poker game in the hotel's bar / palapa which I missed because I went to bed early that night.

Incidentally, when we left the hosts reminded us to post a review to Trip Advisor when we got home if we cared to. I did, and that's the only review I've posted there (which, I presume, makes me a suspect poster).

The other hotel we stayed at in Granada, the most highly rated in the city, was nice and decent value, but certainly was neither the best nor the best value. As much as it pains me to suggest it (since the owners there were very nice also) I am forced to suspect the possibility of review manipulation.
3/26/2009 4:52 PM EDT
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breezy97 wrote:
The popularity of user-generated website reviews is in response to the lack of information available about the majority of properties in a given area. What if the place in which you are interested in staying is not included in a published guidebook? I find this is especially true for all-inclusives and newer properties. Guidebooks also do not always highlight pros and cons of interest to a specific reader (for example, what room numbers are closest to the beach or the pool). There are many worthy places to stay that are never covered in a guidebook. I too am frustrated in using user-generated websites, especially knowing that some of the reviews must be fake, but I am willing to wade through them in hopes of garnering information that just doesn't seem to be anywhere else.
3/26/2009 7:12 PM EDT
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Alex Berger wrote:
There is no question that the the system gets gamed...but by that same token, it's the very nature of a system to get gamed. While, perhaps, less prolific - there are plenty of instances of paid travel writers getting bought off or given better than average treatment.

When do user-generated websites work? When there's moderation and a lot of user generated content. Wikipedia is nearly as accurate as Encarta because those that wish to game the system are balanced out by the hundreds who wish to protect it.

I prefer to travel via hostels - the user generated portions/reviews on Hostel World are some of the most useful and beneficial travel advice i've found. Not to mention accurate.

The trick isn't one or the other - it's all about balance. It's also about the methodology put in place to collect user reviews.
3/26/2009 7:33 PM EDT
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LarryG wrote:
It is true that user-generated review sites suffer from major problems. It takes care and experience just to get useful information out of them, and even then there are pitfalls. The "best of" lists generated for hotels and restaurants make me want to scream.

However, there are reasons why these web sites have become so popular: professional tour guide sites suffer from their own set of problems. These include limited breadth of coverage, reviews that are often years out of date, and a seeming unwillingness to mention any negatives connected with a property. Indeed, I long ago gave up on the hope of finding any reliable information on restaurants, shows, or tours.

What to do? Read the tour guides, but recognize their shortcomings. Check the user-generated review sites, and recognize their shortcomings as well. Look for specialized sites (e.g., a local restaurant critic, or a user review site devoted to food); these sites have some of the same problems, but seem to be better on average.

3/27/2009 10:25 AM EDT
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To those with problems with the pros: I can't speak for other series, but for our series we do our best to stay accurate and up to date (we update more than most other guidebook series and post updates on this website); we take ourselves seriously as journalists and therefor our opinions "aren't up for sale" as one reader alleges.

And because we feel there's usefulness in being selective, we only cover those properties--restaurants, attractions, etc.--that we feel are worth being mentioned. Those that aren't up to snuff usually don't get mentioned, which is why you don't read that many negative reviews in a guidebook (the big exception would be when a big name restaurant, hotel or attraction isn't that great; then we warn our readers against those).

We're hoping our readers will understand that we're out there for them, visiting every single hotel and restaurant in the area being mentioned, so that we can sort the wheat from the chaff. Unlike user generated sites, where a user is user is writing up the one and only hotel in the area they've visited, because we do an intense amount of ground research, we can compare and contrast hotels and put forward only those that are worthy of attention. I think there's some real value in that.

Sometimes the over-abundance of information, which often offer no real basis for comparison (since each write-up consists of an opinion about one property without the author's knowledge of what else is available), can just be confusing, don't you think? Especially when a good percentage of the write ups are faked.

Just another perspective.
3/27/2009 12:02 PM EDT
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jogi wrote:
I think there is tremendous value to be had in *both* expert-generated and user-generated content (information). Neither is perfect, but in my opinion a mix of the two is better than each alone.

In the name of transparency, some full disclosure first: I am a regular poster in the NYC forum here at frommers.com and up until recently, an active participant and volunteer "Destination Expert" on the Costa Rica forum at TripAdvisor.com. My recent curtailment of TA participation has more to do with me than the TA/Expedia company. Also, my professional work has recently had me interacting extensively with hotel operations leaders.

Arthur, you're an institution who pioneered an industry and over the years built a brand which many people trust for value-oriented travel advice. One only need to look for an empty seat at one of your public appearances to realize that your wealth of knowledge and opinions are in demand. By the same token, your traditional competitors are themselves valued as one-stop-shops by various travelers.

I'm not going to argue against the value of such expertise nor challenge the integrity of your intentions, but somewhere between the purity you espouse and the cynicism of Thomas Kohnstamm's world are limitations that the print editorial process all but ensures and the TripAdvisors of the world are addressing.

In a word, dynamism rules. The restaurant scene can be difficult to keep up with in the best of times, and nowadays even dedicated foodie sites can't keep up with closures and chef/ingredient/menu changes. Some hotels have dropped rates 50% and service standards everywhere are fluctuating as managers try to make it work economically. We don't know if a middling pricey 4-star hotel that rightfully didn't make it in your more value-oriented mix last year now look like a bargain at 40% off because you never included it. Rapidly developing countries? Forget about it...

Ever since Al Gore invented the Internet, technology and price have been conspiring to democratize content. In conjunction with a faltering economy, the likes of TripAdvisor, Yelp, Chowhound, Menupages, Citysearch and a myriad of blogs have finally hit the critical mass levels that are changing the playing field and impacting traditional media -- travel or otherwise. The wealth of info covering every niche possible (and then some) is amazing. Noisy rooms in the east wing from a construction project last month? You'll read about it. Hot new restaurant? Posted. Rumours? Ooooh. Downhill alert? Noted. And it's interactive, with users playing off each other.

But to Pauline's point, all this non-comparative data, even if honestly written, can also be a nightmare. How to sort through?!? Paradoxically, this data dump makes editing and aggregating more important than ever for highlighting the gems amongst the noise (see Arianna Huffington, Matt Drudge).

When there are few reviews, user-generated review sites can present a skewed picture because there are few data points, but as the number of reviews increase, you see patterns and can pick up both some warning signs and nuggets of info relevant to your unique preference profile. On the dark side, you have shilling, sabotage and other forms of gaming the system as Alex described above, but in aggregate does the consumer benefit or get hurt by user-generated content sites? I say benefit. In my "Destination Expert" experience on TripAdvisor, one of the frustrating things was suspected shills and the balance of posters with commercial interests being able to provide valuable information without overdoing the self-promotion, but the payoff was a community that tapped a wide swath of experiences that no person alone could offer. From previous conversations with TA staff, shilling is something they say they continuously struggle with and develop practices to detect and block. In practice, as with anyone, you be the judge. For sites where posters have to register, clicking their user ID to see other posts helps you the user easily judge their credibility too. Access to a lot of data requires something of the consumer that being spoon-fed information does not -- critical thinking.

Will the problems persist? I actually bet they'll only intensify as the same managers who pay attention to internal customer service metrics now look at TripAdvisor, info presented can impact economic performance, and vicious economic pressures on both reviewed entities the expert/user-generated media properties who cover them present opportunities for abuse. But as Alex deftly noted above, so long as there are enough people to offset the abusers, the system will mostly work. I don't think this is being naive.

When friends of mine are coming to New York and ask me for advice, I recommend Pauline's new NYC guidebook as a starting point. Why? Because I find it credible, accommodating yet pushing the boundaries of your average boring NYC guidebook and, the person have a good trip using it without needing my babysitting (yey!). Now for some this may be enough, but I still insist my friends hit up Time Out New York, forums, Chowhound, and yes, TripAdvisor to get additional info for trip planning and the latest info.

The system may not be perfect, but so long as there is competition to keep innovation flowing and ALL you guys honest as you sort out the economics of profitably providing your content in today's highly fractured marketplace, I think we the consumer will win.

BTW, I just noticed that the right sidebar on the page for TripAdvisor's hotel reviews has a section titles "Best Web Links -- Professional Advice" where they highlight expert reviews on the specific property from around the web. One of their sources? Frommers.com.
3/28/2009 2:20 AM EDT
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Dennis Schaal wrote:
Arthur: I agree that some of the reviews on TripAdvisor or TravelPost must be fakes. But, can't you agree that they provide SOME value? That if you have 325 reviews about some hotel, then the preponderance must be from real travelers and their insights might be useful. Then, if you take these reviews and vet them as you also read professionals' reviews... aha, then you have a ton of good information to make your hotel choices with. It isn't an either or situation.
3/28/2009 12:46 PM EDT
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GarryRF wrote:
Frommers did a glowing Review of the newly built Tuckers Point Hotel last year. Its in the Bermuda 2009 guide. It's opening has been delayed with problems and is still under construction.
3/29/2009 6:06 AM EDT
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