My family and I will be traveling to Europe next June/July (my husband and two teenagers).Our intinerary will start from london, going to Paris by train and there is when the problem starts; I'd like
My family and I will be traveling to Europe next June/July (my husband and two teenagers).Our intinerary will start from london, going to Paris by train and there is when the problem starts; I'd like to go from Paris - Nice - Barcelona, in order to get a cruise from there to Venice in the end, and from there go to Munich-Zurich, departing then back to US. We have intention to go all around by train. The problem is that within this season, the options for cruises living from Barcelona and ending in Venice are limited. So my husband, thought we could invert the intinerary and go first to Zurich and Munich (right after Paris), or even go to Brussels as well, and from there to the little cruise on the Rhine to Munich; and from Munich go to Venice and get a cruise there going to Barcelona. I'd like to have some suggestions about it, if someone already has going on a similar intinerary. I also want to avoid long train trips because my teens...I want them enjoying the travel and not bored inside some 10 hours os train trips. Another question is about the Europass...could we buy them in advance here in US? Thanks a lot for your help!!!
The first order of business is to sort out your cruises. You are saying that there are cruises from Venice to Barcelona but not vice versa? You could make either option work. As for your Rhine River cruise, Munich is not on the Rhine River. Many people do take a day cruise along the most scenic, castle-rich stretch of the Rhine, but that is in northern Germany, far from Munich.
Assuming a cruise from Venice to Barcelona, one way you could make your trip work is London-Paris-Zurich-Munich-Venice. By fastest connection, it's only about four hours from Paris to Zurich and four hours from Zurich to Munich. From Munich, it's a scenic train ride south to Venice, but if you don't want to spend 7+ hours on the train, you can do it by night train. For the most part, it's unlikely your kids will be overwhelmingly bored on the train, as it's far, far more comfortable and easier to move around on a train than on a flight. If your cruise doesn't stop in Nice, you'll need to skip it, as it does not fit at all well with the rest of your itinerary.
Rail passes often aren't a good deal, so keep an open mind. They usually make the most sense for those taking multiple long trips, so you might be one of those they will work for, but often you can get discounted fares and beat the rail pass price handily. One site that is good for learning about rail passes is www.ricksteves.com/rail/rail_menu.htm and you can learn a lot about all aspects of European train travel on www.seat61.com
I think you owe it to your country to become an air traffic controller at O'Hare. I read lagioconda's post several time, and I couldn't keep it my head what route was being compared to what route and which boats were leaving from where from one end of the post to the other. Not at all the fault of lagioconda's writing, just my lack of talent for multiple tiers of complexity.
Or maybe you could run for President. I would predict a landslide against the available line-up.
I'm not sure how far lagioconda (keep the smile up!) wants to cruise on the Rhine, but the Munich destination is not as far fetched as it seems. Since 1992, when the Rhine-Main-Danube canal opened, finishing the links, it has been possible to travel by river all the way from the mouth of the Rhine in the Netherlands to the Black Sea mouth of the Danube.
The closest port to Munich would be Nuremberg, which is sort of a destination for both Danube cruises and Rhine cruises; from there it's not a long trip to Munich--an hour to hour and a quarter by train.
I've always been fascinated by river cruises, and yet, like trans-continental rail trips, after a while I find I'm waiting for it to be over so I can resume walking around and poking at things and talking to people. More than a few hours seems too much...even for the fjord cruises out of Bergen. But I still love the idea!
The best part of every trip is realizing that it has upset your expectation.
The concept of a river cruise has always sounded good to me, too. Then I look at the actual schedules of the river cruises and realize that they allow ridiculously short amounts of time on land at many of the stops.
Then I also think about eating most of my meals on the boat (as they are included in the price) when, for me, one of the joys of travel is to find local cafes, restaurants, bars, etc. to try truly local foods and drinks. So about once a year I look at brochures and websites, and end up not going on a cruise.
There are some gourmet river runs, although I'm not sure they'd work for this particular poster. But some of them are as short as 2 nights, and have Michelin chefs, although that kind of dining might not be your preference, even if it is well done.
Thanks a lot for such great suggestions. I think I was not clear enough because somehow I managed to miss several words and even some sentences (like the one for the Rhine cruise!!!) but Road Crazy was able to figure things out. Our travel, including land and cruise will take around 1 month. For some reason, there are a lot more cruisese leaving from Rome than from Venice, and ending up in Barcelona is important as well because if Nice is not a port of call, I will go there by TGV Mediterrane. I was just a little bit confused on how to optimize the time. I have browsed many rail passes sites, but most of them still don't display some of the fares I need for this travel. I may add a stop in Milano from Munich, instead going direct to Venice. I think my son will enjoy to meet some of our family there. If any of you still have suggestions, I'd appreciate to know them!! Grazie!
If you have family in Milan, I suggest you prioritize visiting there. Travelers who were able to visit with Italian family have returned here to report this was the highlight of their trip. Don't pass up that opportunity!
If you visit Milan, you will want to travel from Munich to Venice first and then to Milan. Otherwise, you'll have to spend a day on the train, as there are no direct night trains from Munich to Milan (and no direct day trains either).
You list Zurich as a destination, but unless you have a special reason for wanting to see Zurich, I suggest basing your Swiss stay in Luzern, where the scenery is more spectacular.
So you have a month. I'm going to assume that you will spend a week of that on your cruise. That leaves you with three weeks for London, Paris, Zurich or Luzern, Munich, Venice, Milan, and I assume Rome - if you're going to leave on a cruise out of Rome, you really do want to have some time for Rome itself. That, as outlined, is about as much as you can reasonably do in three weeks, maybe too much. London, Paris and Rome are world cities with enough to justify a week apiece - don't give them less than four days apiece or you will only be waving hello to the most famous monuments and missing so much more that is there. If you can arrange to visit with family, give Milan three days or so. You can hit the highlights of Munich in a couple days, but your Swiss stop justifies three or four days. And your time is gone. To try to stuff more places in means spending a lot more time getting around and less time actually seeing the places you came to see. I know it's tempting to try to do more, because you are so close, and it cost so much in time and money to get there! But it's true, the more you try to do, the less you will see.
So I don't see time for your river cruise, nor do I see time for Nice. This last shouldn't distress you too much. Unless you have a specific objective in Nice, it isn't a place you should labor to squeeze into a packed itinerary. It will take you a day on the train to get there from Barcelona, and it's just not worth it for a day or maybe two in Nice.
When you get ready to put this together, be sure to fly on a multi-city fare, into London and home from your last city to avoid the time and expense of backtracking.
Thanks again RC! This travel aside been a vacation with the family is to take my son back to Europe, where he doesn't go since 2004. Most of the cities, he picked them himself. I lived most of my life in Europe, and my Mom was Italian (American Dad),and used to know very well the bigest cosmopolitan center like Paris, London, Milano, Geneve, Brussels, e some others. I go to Europe every other year but because my husband loves escorted tour - what I have no patiance any more after so many years studing this, while he goes for the tours I go for the shopping. My son already told me that a couple of museums are OK with him in each countri, and a couple of historical sites as well, but he is more interested in try t find out where the teenagres hang around - like I knew it! yeah, right!
So, we will spend 3 days in London (he wants to see the new Harry Potter attraction, the London Eye, and the rest will be up to us. In Paris he wants to go to the Tour Eiffel, some running around the city e due to my insistence, the Louvre and the Versailles. Still trying the Madeleine and the Sacre Couer, while of course, he wants to attend a Moulin Rouge presentation, but just in his dreams!He may like to visit the catacoumbes and Pere Lachaise.And of course time for chopping because he has a kind sorts long shopping list (and I will have a broke account afterwards.
We will visit my family in layers: we will visit some in Milano and some in Como, e still others in Cortina D'Ampezzo. I think that from there I can find a way to go to Munich by train, and after a couple days in Munich, we can stop in Luzerne before following to Zurich. I was thinking about 12 to 14 days for the land part 1; 7 days for the cruise; and then leave Rome to Milano, Como, Cortina d"ampezzo and finaly Munich e then Zurich and Luzern (thanks for the suggestion) even though I had seen that lion many many times!!!
My possible intinerary will be London (3 nights), Paris (4 nights), Venice (2 nights), Florence (2 nights), Roma (2 nights) - cruising the Mediterraneo for 7 days - Rome (1 night), Milano (3 nights), Como (1 Night), Cortina D'Ampezzo (1 night), Munich (2 nights), Luzern (1 or 2 nights) and Zurich (1 night ) before the fly.
What do yu think abut it? Doable without been annoying??? Any suggestions for hotels in Munich, Luzern and Zurich? It could be superior first classe with a great location. I'd appreciate more suggestions!
I think you will find it is very time consuming to go to Milan, Como and Cortina d'Ampezzo and get to Verona, where you can catch a train to Munich, so the time you've alotted may not be enough.
When you get off your cruise, do you need to spend a night in Rome? Could you head straight to Milan instead?
Could you spend 4 nights in Milan and visit your relatives on Lago di Como as a daytrip without spending the night at the lake?
That way, you could go from Milan by train to Belluno, and get a bus to Cortina d'Ampezzo , or go from Milan by fast train to Venice/Mestre to rent a car and drive to Cortina d'Ampezzo. (You may be able to rent a car in Belluno, I don't know.) Either way, you might need 2 nights for Cortina d'Ampezzo because it is time consuming to get in and out there.
You can pick up a train in Verona for Munich, and I hear the ride is very scenic.
lagioconda...aside from all the questions about timing and itinerary, one thing stands out in your posting that others should note: not everyone on the trip has to do all the same things. You are wise in listening to your son's needs, to your husband's penchant for guided tours, and to your own wishes.
Too many families try to force everyone into the same mold, either by one's wishes dominating, or by cutting out everything that is not part everyone's lists. However hectic your trip--and it sounds like it will be--it will be better for your wisdom.
The best part of every trip is realizing that it has upset your expectation.
It helps to know that you already have a lot of European experience.
I don't know what you would consider annoying, but personally I would wear out on so many one- and two-night stops, especially over a month. I suggest trimming a destination or two in the interest of having more time in the places you go.
I realize you're probably quite familiar with Rome, but if your son hasn't been to Europe since he was a preteen, I'd give it more than two nights so he has time to absorb a bit of it.
A day for Munich is pretty brief, given the time you will spend in transit (unless you plan to take the night train, in which case you'd have two days there).
One night in Luzern is pointless - it will take you much of a day to get there from Munich, so you'd only have a few hours in the late afternoon - hardly worth it for the travel time involved. I'd suggest three nights there, so you have time for side trips to Mt Pilatus and/or Mt Titlis and a real experience of the Alps, rather than a token stop in lakeside Luzern. (And IMO the lion is famous for being famous and nothing special as a sight - I'd feel perfectlly comfortable skipping it.)
I also agree with mushroom about heading straight to Milan when you get off your cruise and day-tripping to Lake Como rather than shifting hotels yet again.
You guys are right; I should skip staying at Como and Cortina d'Ampezzo stays. I don't have to stay at Roma after the cruise, so i will get to Milano right way and will do Como as a day trip, or vice versa (very probably) once the lake is much nicer in the summer than Milano. I have no problem time wise speaking, I can stay as long as I want in Europe what is a big plus, but I want also something else a little bit organized or I know I will overstay in some of the cities. My biggest problem is still figuring out how I should do between Milano and Munich. I had been there a couple times but always flying in, and I don't want to do this now. I really want for my son enjoy the views. This is a region that I am not very familiar by train the same way I am not very familiar with the German side of Switzerland, just the Italian and mainly the French side. I don't want to drive there, unless I go to Amalfi coast, what so far I haven't planned, but hey, this is other thing I could do!!! Maybe before the cruise I could spend some days there!! If you have any hotel suggestion in Munich and Zurich, I'd appreciate it! @Mushroom - I loved your suggestion on taking the train from Verona to Munich, thanks! @PHeymont - I have to take their interest into consideration, otherwise it will be a hell for all of us! @ Road crazy - I will take your suggestion of spending more days in Roma...even though I am Milanese :)! Grazie mille!!
If your days are flexible, it might be easier if you visited Cortina d'Ampezzo before the cruise, after you visit Venezia, and go from there to Firenze.
You say you really want your son to enjoy the views, so maybe you could consider going from Cortina d'Ampezzo to Firenze via Bolzano, You could take a bus across the famous Grande Strada sulle Dolomiti. But if you like to drive the Amalfi coast, it is just as spectacular to drive the Grande Strada, but actually a little easier.
Then, after the cruise, when you go straight to Milano, you could visit Como as a day trip but then take a train from Milano into Switzerland first, and from there go to Munich. You can take the train from Milano to Interlaken or Spiez in Switzerland (Spiez is a very pretty town on Lake Thun), and from either town you can easily reach the special train for the Jungfrajoch for a day trip, before moving on to Zurich/Munich.
@Mushroom - great suggestions...We will be going to Firenze in our way from Venezia to Roma, so Cortina will be set aside for while. We decided to stay in Como and go to Milano on day trips to visit the family. We also sort of chose going to Zurich first and Munich afterwards just because the logistics. Thanks!
