My wife and I took a trip to Egypt with Trafalgar Tours from Wednesday, July 30th through Friday, August 8th. We were smart enough to add two pre-days before the tour began and two days as an add on a
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Cat:Middle East and AfricaForum:0EE6B358
Cat:Middle East and AfricaForum:0EE6B358Discussion:0EF4CD4C
My wife and I took a trip to Egypt with Trafalgar Tours from Wednesday, July 30th through Friday, August 8th. We were smart enough to add two pre-days before the tour began and two days as an add on after the tour concluded. This allowed us to see enumerable sites in Cairo and Alexandria that the tour neglected to include in their schedule. To be truthful, this is the first organized tour that we have taken. We have previously done a lot of independent touring in Australia, New Zealand, Europe, Mexico, Central America, South America, Canada, and the United States. Therefore, to be quite honest, when I criticize the deficiencies in the Trafalgar Tour, I cannot judge whether these are normal for other tours as well.
To begin with, our Tour Director,while being very knowledgeable, did not seem to provide us with enough time to truly enjoy and absorb many of the pyramids, temples, and mosques that we visited. This was disconcerting to any number of the people on our tour. In addition, there were many sites, particularly in Cairo, that were very relevant to see that we missed. In particular, the tour completely skipped Islamic Cairo including the Khan al-Khalili Bazaar. Luckily, my wife and I were able to see this fascinating area with one of our extra days. The tour could have incorporated this site as well some of the other interesting ones in Cairo if it had better organized its time. For example, on Thursday, August 7th, we took an 11:30 A.M. flight from Luxor back to Cairo, and then drove across the city to a linen store and fast food snack shop to waste time until we could check into our hotel at 3 P.M. That schedule effectively wasted an entire day. It would have been much more time effective to either have flown back to Cairo the previous night, or to have taken an early morning flight on Thursday, and then been able to enjoy a full day of touring in Cairo before checking into our hotel in the late afternoon. What a total waste of a day. Then, on Friday, we spent the morning visiting the Citadel and the Hanging Church of St. Mary in Coptic Cairo. Our Tour Director then took us directly to the Egyptian Museum by which time we were all hungry and tired. The group spent approximately 2 ½ hours in this magnificent complex, but most of the people in the group failed to enjoy the time spent there with no break for either rest or lunch. The tour left the museum at 3 P.M. to return to the hotel. It would have been much better if the group had been provided with a break for food and relaxation before heading to the museum.
Another criticism of the tour was that when we were in Aswan an optional two hour excursion to a Nubian village was offered. No information was provided on where the trip intended to go. Many of us who went assumed that we going to be taken to the highly-acclaimed Nubian villages on Elephantine Island. However, we were taken to an unimpressive Nubian site on the West Bank of the Nile that offered little of interest. What a disappointment! Moreover, one option that was on the agenda was the sound and light show at Karnak Temple outside of Luxor. However, our Tour Director, never really tried to promote this activity, and, therefore, no one seemed interested. It would have been an enjoyable activity rather than just spending another night on the boat. Finally, it seems we spend a lot of time visiting different shops that sell Egyptian products rather than visiting the more relevant historical sites. These included visiting an Egyptian rug making shop, papyrus shop, perfumery, alabaster shop, and finally a shop that sold cotton products. These were the few occasions when there was no time limit on our visit. I dont know if the Tour Director, or the local travel agency for Trafalgar, Spring Tours, got a kickback for sales, but it sure seems curious that we spent so much time at these stores.
I hope this information will allow others to be forewarned. They should check out very thoroughly, to the best of their ability, what exactly is going to take place on their tour before they book it.
I found your comments very interesting as I'm looking at several travel companies including Traflagar that have Nile Tours. Will keep this in mind. ardu
I too have travelled with Trafalgar to Egypt this past year and must say I agree with you on the schedule. I had read the tour description and felt that it would give free time at a couple of different points of the trip which would allow me to independantly visit a few places I'd longed to see. (Having listened to Dr. Briers History of Egypt inpired me to see a few places not on the usual Tourist Track) Anyways, I got the impression that we were being insulated from straying from anything not organized. I was shocked to hear the Khan El-Khalil wasn't even being visited as a part of the trip! (It's an experiance to be had for sure!) In all fairness I must disclose this was my 3rd trip to Egypt and I had arranged to arrive in Cairo 2 days early so I had time to do the Khan then. (Which on a side note I used Debbie at Casual Cairo to arrange the 2 pre days which went quite lovely! Hello Debbie! :) I did end up offering a number of people on the Trafalgar tour the opportunity to join me as I returned to the Khan the last day we were in Cairo. About 7 of us went and judging from their reactions post visit they where amazed at the experience. (Riding in a cab in Cairo can only be descibed as "Mr. Toads Wild Ride!") I know that it is seemingly the Egyptian way for all the guides to get commisions on those "tourist stops" at the shops but there is a fine line between that & feeling like its detracting from the original goal of the trip.
Anyways the best policy is to do your homework when choosing a company & I would always recommend a day or 2 pre or post trip to experiance things on your own. As long as you pack your common sense getting around Egypt is not that scary!
Good evening Gary....I read your report of your recent trip with Trafalgar with great interest. One because we have traveled with them several times:France, Greece, Turkey and always found them wonderful, although I do agree with you: they spend a lot of time visiting local shops!!! But most importantly: we are going to Egypt and Jordan in Jan. with Vantage and I am a little concerned with walking about at the pyramids and other sites. My problem is I'm 67 about 30 pounds too heavy and had a seriously broken ankle last January. I can walk but have difficulty walking long distances (over 1/2 mile) on rough or uneven terrain (cobblestones are the worst). Can you give me any insight please. And one question: In the event that I find I cannot accompany the group are there places where I can sit and wait for them to return? Thanks ever so much. Judy
My wife and I took a trip to Egypt with Trafalgar Tours from Wednesday, July 30th through Friday, August 8th. We were smart enough to add two pre-days before the tour began and two days as an add on after the tour concluded. This allowed us to see enumerable sites in Cairo and Alexandria that the tour neglected to include in their schedule. To be truthful, this is the first organized tour that we have taken. We have previously done a lot of independent touring in Australia, New Zealand, Europe, Mexico, Central America, South America, Canada, and the United States. Therefore, to be quite honest, when I criticize the deficiencies in the Trafalgar Tour, I cannot judge whether these are normal for other tours as well. To begin with, our Tour Director,while being very knowledgeable, did not seem to provide us with enough time to truly enjoy and absorb many of the pyramids, temples, and mosques that we visited. This was disconcerting to any number of the people on our tour. In addition, there were many sites, particularly in Cairo, that were very relevant to see that we missed. In particular, the tour completely skipped Islamic Cairo including the Khan al-Khalili Bazaar. Luckily, my wife and I were able to see this fascinating area with one of our extra days. The tour could have incorporated this site as well some of the other interesting ones in Cairo if it had better organized its time. For example, on Thursday, August 7th, we took an 11:30 A.M. flight from Luxor back to Cairo, and then drove across the city to a linen store and fast food snack shop to waste time until we could check into our hotel at 3 P.M. That schedule effectively wasted an entire day. It would have been much more time effective to either have flown back to Cairo the previous night, or to have taken an early morning flight on Thursday, and then been able to enjoy a full day of touring in Cairo before checking into our hotel in the late afternoon. What a total waste of a day. Then, on Friday, we spent the morning visiting the Citadel and the Hanging Church of St. Mary in Coptic Cairo. Our Tour Director then took us directly to the Egyptian Museum by which time we were all hungry and tired. The group spent approximately 2 ½ hours in this magnificent complex, but most of the people in the group failed to enjoy the time spent there with no break for either rest or lunch. The tour left the museum at 3 P.M. to return to the hotel. It would have been much better if the group had been provided with a break for food and relaxation before heading to the museum. Another criticism of the tour was that when we were in Aswan an optional two hour excursion to a Nubian village was offered. No information was provided on where the trip intended to go. Many of us who went assumed that we going to be taken to the highly-acclaimed Nubian villages on Elephantine Island. However, we were taken to an unimpressive Nubian site on the West Bank of the Nile that offered little of interest. What a disappointment! Moreover, one option that was on the agenda was the sound and light show at Karnak Temple outside of Luxor. However, our Tour Director, never really tried to promote this activity, and, therefore, no one seemed interested. It would have been an enjoyable activity rather than just spending another night on the boat. Finally, it seems we spend a lot of time visiting different shops that sell Egyptian products rather than visiting the more relevant historical sites. These included visiting an Egyptian rug making shop, papyrus shop, perfumery, alabaster shop, and finally a shop that sold cotton products. These were the few occasions when there was no time limit on our visit. I dont know if the Tour Director, or the local travel agency for Trafalgar, Spring Tours, got a kickback for sales, but it sure seems curious that we spent so much time at these stores. I hope this information will allow others to be forewarned. They should check out very thoroughly, to the best of their ability, what exactly is going to take place on their tour before they book it. Posted by Gary Pechersky
I think that the shopping stops are becoming more and more prevelant. We have traveled frequently with Collette Vacations and, while we enjoy their trips, we have noticed an increasing frequency of these shopping stops which is why I think we are going with an independent guide on our trip to Egypt. While I do want to visit Khan al -Khalili I don't want to waste a lot of time on these bogus stops. I am certain that either the tour leader or the company is getting a kickback. I did complain about this on our last trip but got no reaction.
I am certain that either the tour leader or the company is getting a kickback. I did complain about this on our last trip but got no reaction. Posted by lessalt
Absolutely, you are right. Commissions are common in Egypt at the papyrus institutes and carpet schools, gold and perfume factories, as they are at the Holland cheese and wooden shoe factory. It's part of the travel business.
The large companies (and many smaller ones) take commissions in order to keep prices down. When you are comparing prices between companies, consider how many shopping stops you will have and remember that often over 50% of what you pay goes back to the company you are traveling with (they take some and split the rest between the guides and the drivers). I'm constantly hearing lies people were told by their guides to get them nervous about shopping anywhere else other than at these shops they take them to. I just want to slap people around when I hear someone tell me that their guide said something that made them feel as if they needed to shop here and here only. Also, each shop will offer drinks to you when you go in. Americans, inparticular, seem to fall for the idea that if they were given something (a drink) they really should buy something then. DON'T FEEL THIS WAY! It's a trick! They are not putting out that much on that Coke or lemon juice and the product they are selling has such an inflated price tag on it that you should not feel compelled to have to buy something.
Personally, I wish the carpet schools would start making something very small, like coasters from the carpet materials. I think these would make ideal souvenirs for those that feel compelled to buy something to buy and take home, but I cannot convince them to do it and the only thing I can think of is that they know the profit on those would not be as big as the profit on a real carpet and enough customers fall for the guilt and will buy a carpet, so why would they offer something less expensive?
Rant over. Long story short - there are some companies that do not work on commissions but you have to look for them, and the bottom line up front will look more expensive than the group tours that do the mandatory shopping stops because to NOT do a stop, you have to pay your guides better than average.
Having said all that - if you want something and you like the price you are being offered it at - BUY IT! Everyone will be happy.
I do not enjoy tours for 2 reasons 1. I have a back/leg problem that makes it very hard to keep up, and 2. I feel as if I am in a herd of cows being taken from place to place.
Egypt is NOT an expensive place to travel to-not at all. I travel for 20 days, solo--just me and my guide-----and it was great. We followed a schedule, yet changed it some when we wanted. You do not do that on a tour. Someone always met me at airports and got me to and from my hotels. It was a next to perfect trip (all the hotels were great, except for one, and that was my only complaint!)
I do not feel going on my own cost me much-if any-more than if I was with a tour. I did plan my own flights over and back.
I went with MISR.travel-planned my own trip and they ''fine tuned it'' for me. I also called on Casual Cairo in Cairo, to take me shopping. I wish I could have planned another day or two with her. It was fun.
The trip was a once in a lifetime trip, and I have traveled. I leave today for Morocco and Andalucia area of Spain. It will be great, I am sure. But, nothng can stand up to a trip to Egypt.
I think you'll find the Vantage trip quite manageable. I've travelled with Vantage several times (including Egypt) and have found them quite manageable. They specialize in arrangements for "seniors". I think you'll like the pacing.
In the past year I have taken 2 tours in Europe. One with Globus and one with Trafalgar. With Trafalgar they did take you to the places that were mentioned in their tour brochure, but some of the sights mentioned were just drive bys. When they did take you to a sight to let you explore it was on your own and you had to purchase your own admission. The Globus tour guides went with the group to explain everything and they took care all of the admission fees.
Trafalgar was not bad, but Globus was much better.
Judy,I think you'll find the Vantage trip quite manageable. I've travelled with Vantage several times (including Egypt) and have found them quite manageable. They specialize in arrangements for "seniors". I think you'll like the pacing. Posted by jumyow
Thank you Jumyow...that's what I wanted to know!!!!
Where else have you gone with Vantage. This is our second trip with them, prior to that we traveled with Trafalgar or Club ABC. Dropped Club ABC over a major mis-representation (imho) and will still use Trafalgar.
In the past year I have taken 2 tours in Europe. One with Globus and one with Trafalgar. With Trafalgar they did take you to the places that were mentioned in their tour brochure, but some of the sights mentioned were just drive bys. When they did take you to a sight to let you explore it was on your own and you had to purchase your own admission. The Globus tour guides went with the group to explain everything and they took care all of the admission fees.Trafalgar was not bad, but Globus was much better. Posted by Joseph7820
And that's why there's so many travel companies!!! It's funny we always enjoyed Trafalgar because they let us explore on our own and the only times we had to pay admission was if we went somewhere without the group. Never went with Globus but have friends who did and they were disappointed with them!
I had the absolute best trip to Egypt in January 2004 with Abercrombie & Kent. Nothing was spared and if our group did not want to go to a schedule place our guide took us to where we wanted to go. It was fabulous!
I went to Egypt with a small company called International Horizons. The owner/guide is a retired archaeology professor, so we went to a lot of the archaeological sites.
The trip was so much fun! I think Egypt must be the most photogenic country in the world. <sigh>
... For example, on Thursday, August 7th, we took an 11:30 A.M. flight from Luxor back to Cairo, and then drove across the city to a linen store and fast food snack shop to waste time until we could check into our hotel at 3 P.M. ... Finally, it seems we spend a lot of time visiting different shops that sell Egyptian products rather than visiting the more relevant historical sites. ... I dont know if the Tour Director, or the local travel agency for Trafalgar, Spring Tours, got a kickback for sales, but it sure seems curious that we spent so much time at these stores.....Posted by Gary Pechersky
Welcome to the world of big tour bus touring. The tour guides do get a percentage of sales, which is how they make most of their money. We have used Trafalgar a couple of times for river cruises in Europe, and they were fine, but you have to understand the game (it's about shopping and tour extras). We wouldn't take a bus tour with any traditional tour operator. Also, if you read the Trafalgar brochures carefully, they actually indicate which stops are actual stops and which are drive-bys.
There are, however, tour providers who operate differently - you just have to look hard to find them (Rick Steves is one for Europe, for example).
We had an identical experience with Friendly Planet Tours. We had done a tour with Trafalgar throughout Italy, which went well, so I believe Trafalgar is a reputable company. But our Egypt tour - so much wasted time and poor planning. We were constantly arriving at our hotel around midnight for check-in and then having to be out of the room by 7 am the next morning. It was exhausting! Also, the three-day Nile cruise actually involved only 1 1/2 days of actual cruising. We sat tied up for over 24 hours after boarding. About half of our group of 28 got quite ill aboard ship, so there were questions about health standards aboard. We loved seeing the sights of Egypt, but Friendly Planet Tours could do a lot to improve their itinerary. And yes, we also visited all of those papyrus/alabaster/gold shops where the kickbacks are in force!
We had an identical experience with Friendly Planet Tours. We had done a tour with Trafalgar throughout Italy, which went well, so I believe Trafalgar is a reputable company. But our Egypt tour - so much wasted time and poor planning. We were constantly arriving at our hotel around midnight for check-in and then having to be out of the room by 7 am the next morning. It was exhausting! Also, the three-day Nile cruise actually involved only 1 1/2 days of actual cruising. We sat tied up for over 24 hours after boarding. About half of our group of 28 got quite ill aboard ship, so there were questions about health standards aboard. We loved seeing the sights of Egypt, but Friendly Planet Tours could do a lot to improve their itinerary. And yes, we also visited all of those papyrus/alabaster/gold shops where the kickbacks are in force! Posted by MountainLady
Of the 15 or so tours we have done this would be husband's very favorite. It was beautifully run. We had two groups of 16 on the boat, with a leader for each group. We traveled separately, though sometimes very closely together.
We did some "shops " of weaving and papyrus I remember. Main problem is our fellow travelers would wait to last moment to decide to buy, thus holding up the whole group. I did not get the feeling it was all shopping. Plus, we did get to see the market in Cairo (a few days before the bombing) and did a tour of "The 3 religions of Cairo" that was great.
Grand Circle Travel, the parent company of OAT also runs Egypt trips of a slightly less energetic type, with larger groups. We met up with them and they were pleased with their trip too.
A great place to visit.....cold in January though, especially in Jordan on the post trip.
.....cold in January though, especially in Jordan on the post trip. Posted by Keith K
How cold is it? We're going Jan. 18 and extending to Jordan so we'll be in Jordan around the first of Feb. I thought it would be around mid-60's to mid-70's? I was planning on bringing only jeans, capri pants, long and short sleeve shirts and a light jacket.
I used Maupintour a few years back when I went to Egypt and I have to say the tour was perfect. EVERYTHING was included in the price inc. Abu Simbal. The tour guide was amazing and knew everything. We stayed in fabulous hotels and oredered off menu many nites at dinner.
I got sick and our tour leader got me the proper meds and I didnt even pay for that! My room for the cruise included a balcony and was large enough for a small bathtub. I did not pay extra for any of this.
We saw all the sites including 3 days to Alexandria, and I never felt rushed or that I was not seeing everything or hearing all the info I wanted.
We were even given all the bottled water we wanted to drink each day.
My wife and I took a trip to Egypt with Trafalgar Tours from Wednesday, July 30th through Friday, August 8th. We were smart enough to add two pre-days before the tour began and two days as an add on after the tour concluded. This allowed us to see enumerable sites in Cairo and Alexandria that the tour neglected to include in their schedule. To be truthful, this is the first organized tour that we have taken. We have previously done a lot of independent touring in Australia, New Zealand, Europe, Mexico, Central America, South America, Canada, and the United States. Therefore, to be quite honest, when I criticize the deficiencies in the Trafalgar Tour, I cannot judge whether these are normal for other tours as well. To begin with, our Tour Director,while being very knowledgeable, did not seem to provide us with enough time to truly enjoy and absorb many of the pyramids, temples, and mosques that we visited. This was disconcerting to any number of the people on our tour. In addition, there were many sites, particularly in Cairo, that were very relevant to see that we missed. In particular, the tour completely skipped Islamic Cairo including the Khan al-Khalili Bazaar. Luckily, my wife and I were able to see this fascinating area with one of our extra days. The tour could have incorporated this site as well some of the other interesting ones in Cairo if it had better organized its time. For example, on Thursday, August 7th, we took an 11:30 A.M. flight from Luxor back to Cairo, and then drove across the city to a linen store and fast food snack shop to waste time until we could check into our hotel at 3 P.M. That schedule effectively wasted an entire day. It would have been much more time effective to either have flown back to Cairo the previous night, or to have taken an early morning flight on Thursday, and then been able to enjoy a full day of touring in Cairo before checking into our hotel in the late afternoon. What a total waste of a day. Then, on Friday, we spent the morning visiting the Citadel and the Hanging Church of St. Mary in Coptic Cairo. Our Tour Director then took us directly to the Egyptian Museum by which time we were all hungry and tired. The group spent approximately 2 ½ hours in this magnificent complex, but most of the people in the group failed to enjoy the time spent there with no break for either rest or lunch. The tour left the museum at 3 P.M. to return to the hotel. It would have been much better if the group had been provided with a break for food and relaxation before heading to the museum. Another criticism of the tour was that when we were in Aswan an optional two hour excursion to a Nubian village was offered. No information was provided on where the trip intended to go. Many of us who went assumed that we going to be taken to the highly-acclaimed Nubian villages on Elephantine Island. However, we were taken to an unimpressive Nubian site on the West Bank of the Nile that offered little of interest. What a disappointment! Moreover, one option that was on the agenda was the sound and light show at Karnak Temple outside of Luxor. However, our Tour Director, never really tried to promote this activity, and, therefore, no one seemed interested. It would have been an enjoyable activity rather than just spending another night on the boat. Finally, it seems we spend a lot of time visiting different shops that sell Egyptian products rather than visiting the more relevant historical sites. These included visiting an Egyptian rug making shop, papyrus shop, perfumery, alabaster shop, and finally a shop that sold cotton products. These were the few occasions when there was no time limit on our visit. I dont know if the Tour Director, or the local travel agency for Trafalgar, Spring Tours, got a kickback for sales, but it sure seems curious that we spent so much time at these stores. I hope this information will allow others to be forewarned. They should check out very thoroughly, to the best of their ability, what exactly is going to take place on their tour before they book it. Posted by Gary Pechersky
Hi Gary,
I was very interested in your posting regarding your trip to Egypt with Trafalgar. My wife and I, along with two friends are taking the same trip (Wonders of Ancient Egypt) with Brendan Vacations on 1/5/09. Brendan and Trafalgar share the same tour guide and bus and follow the itinerary organized by Spring Tours. Thus, I was quite dismayed in reading your comments. Similar to you, we have traveled independently to New Zealand (we drove the two islands for three weeks), Australia, Thailand, South America, and many countries in Europe. However, there are certain parts of the world where you feel more comfortable being part of a group. So, unlike you, we have taken organized tours before. Sadly, your Trafalgar experiences are not unique! Sometimes you are lucky, sometimes you're not. We recently returned from a Gate1 trip to Israel where the tour guide would not deviate from the "Program" one iota; according to him, "we'd be legally liable if he took us some place not listed on the itinerary," but that didn't stop him from taking the bus to a factory or shop that wasn't listed. Leaving Masada, he wouldn't stop at the site where the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered, but did stop a few minutes later at a cosmetic factory. On a trip to South Africa, I went all prepared to "reason" with our guide to take us to certain places of interest that were in close proximity to sites that we were visiting; he preempted me by announcing that we would be going to these places at our initial orientation meeting. You just have to be lucky.
Anyway, back to Egypt. We added one day at the beginning of the trip to visit the places in Cairo that should have been included in the itinerary: the Khan El-Khalili Bazaar, the Ben Ezra Synagogue, Islamic Cairo, the Gayer-Anderson Museum, etc. I plan on e-mailing a number of local guides to set up a day trip in Cairo. Time constraints precluded our adding days at the end.
I have a bunch of questions that I'd love to ask you about the trip! I'm hoping that you will be checking back to the Frommer site and see my response. Our e-mail address is: sharon.abramson@ncc.edu Please e-mail us back at that address and perhaps we can talk on the telephone- it's so much quicker that way!!! I'd love to contact Brendan and Spring Tours prior to the trip and try and improve the deficiences before we go. By the way, probably the best way to travel to unusual and distant places is via a "custom trip." In many places, especially Asia, "custom" doesn't cost much more than "group;" we saw Vietnam and Cambodia on a custom tour with one other couple, and, working with the tour company, I was able to have complete input with the itinerary. It was nothing like what you experienced in Egypt or we went through in Israel. Hoping I hear from you,
